No-code talk #4 with Connor Finlayson | AATT #59

Connor and I are back with another no-code talk!

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Aron Korenblit: Hey, Connor. Aaron,  

[00:00:03] Connor Finlayson: how are things going?  

[00:00:04] Aron Korenblit: It's been a, it's been a month, man. It's been quite the month, uh, for you, for the no-code world. Uh, so I'm excited to have you back for no co-talk number four. Can you believe it's been four months that we've been doing this?  

[00:00:19] Connor Finlayson: I know, I know. Well, the goal initially was to do six of these.

So I feel like we are very, very well on track. Um, but it's been good. Fun. It's always good to kind of have to do a little bit of research into like what's going on in the no-code space in anticipation for this each month. So yeah, it's been great.  

[00:00:37] Aron Korenblit: Yeah. We've got our regulars, got Steven, uh, Colleen. Uh, welcome to no code Talk.

Uh, you know, Connor and I have have picked a few things that have crossed our radar. Um, but yeah, we want to kind of open it up to you guys. If you have anything you want to talk about. Let us know, you know, this is more, I don't have anything, you know, air, table focus. I want to show off. There's been just so much happening.

So the four things we want to talk about today first is, um, you know, a lot of, I don't know if a lot of people, but like Connor and I, we talk every week and, and we're often like, oh, should we try this new tool? We hear a lot of hype around a new tool. So want to talk a little bit about how we think about picking new tools in our toolbox, then.

Webflow memberships, huge news. Uh, so wanted to get your take, let us know in the chat, what you've been kind of excited about for Webflow flow membership. Then quick update from you on unicorn factory and kind of the learnings that you've gone through going from New Zealand to Canada. And finally, we're going to talk about code meets no code, which is a kind of project that Connor and I have been working on for a while, but that's our agenda.

We've got a bunch of time today. So let us know in the. What you're hoping we cover today, but I am kind of super excited to dig in here. So Connor, how about intro us? I know you and I kind of have a similar philosophy, but how do you think about using new tools? How do you approach a new tool? Do you even even consider it, talk to a little bit about your philosophy there?

[00:02:13] Connor Finlayson: Yeah. Well, This is kind of an interesting one because I get a lot of people from a lot of questions from people who want to know like what tools they should use to build their own on my marketplace. And they're kind of like on an exact breakdown on why I chose something like Webflow and near Table and Zapier and stuff like that.

But I think one thing that is very important to know about the tools that I chose to get started was that I didn't really have a plan. Like I, uh, when I started the UNICOM fake. Version one point I was actually just web flow and like the main purpose behind it was just so I could build a landing page because that was in my mind all I needed simple landing page, so I could collect.

And as long as I could collect leads, it was kind of job done. And then over time, um, you know, things started getting a little bit busier. The work that I'd have to do manual manually started to add up, which is when I started to look into potential tools that I could use to potentially automate some workflows, all those types of things.

And so. I kind of discovered ear Table and Zapier more out of necessity rather than out of strategy. And so nowadays, when people are thinking about what tools they should use, I feel like there's a tendency to over analyze it and to kind of. Look a bit too far in the future in terms of what you might want to build with your project.

And that oftentimes gets in the way of the actual building side of the project. So when it comes to picking no-code tools, I start off with probably one that basically solves the issue at hand, which in my case was, I need to get a bunch of landing pages up for different freelancers and. I search for new tools based on the issue that I'm trying to solve at hand.

And I think a real important one is to not anticipate problems as much, because that is one thing that I oftentimes see people doing. It's like, well, what am I going to do in to make sure that I can track trends, uh, interactions between customers and freelancers. I'm like, well, why don't you just cross that bridge when you get to it?

Yeah. Especially nowadays with like no code, just like really leveling up. Like even if we just have a look at what's happened in the last year, in terms of the tools that have been like launched, there is a lot out there and it can very quickly same, like, you know, you have to switch between different tools, but I just wanted to say that that is.

Kind of the approach that I've taken solve one problem at a time, try and solve it with the tools that you have first, but if you can't then research tools that solve that specific use case. Yeah.  

[00:05:04] Aron Korenblit: Um, I have, uh, a similar approach that is like no new tools ever. Honestly, I will go to the ends of the earth before I will use a new tool.

Right. So. Just because it, like, every time you add a new tool into your toolbox is like another place where things could go wrong. Right. And I think you're exactly right. Like how far can you go with just what flow, right? How far can you go with just Airtable as your backend? And, you know, a lot of people will kind of be like, oh, but I could save like $20 a month by adding this new tool into my toolkit.

That's like focused on this one particular thing. But often what you end up with is like, yeah, but what is $20? Right. Is that 15 minutes of your time? Is that an hour of your time? Are you actually saving what is valuable to you? Um, so personally I haven't, I even like Parabola, which I played around with last year really got deep into today.

I'm like, oh, well maybe I could use it in my toolkit, but I was still always think about like, what is the core functionality I'm trying to solve? Can I solve it with my existing. And if it's like, no, at that point, maybe he'll tweet and say, I need a new tool, but rarely, rarely, just because I think people love using new tools, but the complexity that it generates just isn't worth it.

Uh, so yeah, I think we're both kind of aligned here never or rarely use new tools if you absolutely need to find one that like covers that exact niche that you want. Uh, but don't try to have a stack of 8, 12, 15, 20 different.  

[00:06:44] Connor Finlayson: For sure. Like, I completely agree the more toes, the more complex it gets. Um, but there's actually like another element that I actually just thought about is now, like now, Products in the past and you had to hire developers for it.

You actually had to kind of like lay out all the features that you'd want them to build. It was not like, you know, in France it's like building VP and all that kind of stuff. But like when you hire developers, it's not as practical as when you're building it yourself. So I feel like a lot of people who kind of do research into product development side of things, they kind of take an approach of like, what is the list of features that I'm going to need?

As if the, handing it over to someone, but you don't actually need to take that approach because you're actually the person building it yourself, which means that you can iterate a lot easier over time. And so even though it may feel at the time that you might need something like member chat that allows your customers to chat with each other, right.

It's not actually necessary in order to start generating value for whatever you're building. And like you said, most importantly, it keeps things super simple. And I feel like that is key, especially when you're just  

getting  

[00:08:00] Aron Korenblit: into it Connor. Correct. Can I admit something to you and to everyone watching?

The reason we like new tools is because the joy of doing something with a new tool, like stops us from doing the hard stuff, which is like marketing. And the things we don't enjoy doing. Right. And, you know, I say this as someone who loves kind of looking at new tools, it's like a, um, yeah. Like, oh, can I like learn how to do this really complex thing that doesn't actually add value to, to whatever project I'm working on.

And actually behind that is like, I don't know. Do the hard work of cold emailing people or, or reviewing my copy or getting more leads in it's actually like that becomes what we enjoy. Uh, so let's, let's kind of hold each other accountable to say, do we actually need this tool? Uh, and are we just hiding the work that we actually have to do?

I love it. Aaron  

[00:08:51] Connor Finlayson: actually reminds me. We're not the fifth startup that I did out of university. Was this like Tinder for food deals app. And at the time. I worked with, I went with two friends who were both developers and we were kind of getting to crunch time where it was like, go out market and sell. But you know, when it's your own thing, you're not really familiar with the whole marketing and sales world, you know, it's quite easy to delay the inevitable.

So I started requesting the most nonsense features in the world. And one of those features I have to tell you was, I was like, we need an Uber integration in this app. Of course. So that. When people will find the places that they want to go, they need to get there somehow. And it's just like, I see this all the time.

It's actually kind of funny because it always reminds me of that story, but it's a really great way to avoid the inevitable, which is to go out marketing, through marketing, selling the dream. Yeah. The hard stuff, the  

[00:09:45] Aron Korenblit: shorts. So, uh, folks spend less time learning new tools and more time. You know, promoting your Things" or, or going out in the world and actually kind of building whatever it is that you want to build.

So, uh, you know, what we promise is we'll, we'll keep each other accountable and we won't talk about any tool unless it's actually, we think value add, and we'll be kind of clear when that's the case. Cool. Okay. Well, Irony here. We just spent 15 minutes while we were like, you shouldn't add any new tools.

And then we're like, let's talk about this new tool that just came out or is going to come out. So, uh, yeah, web flow memberships. So let's jump into that. And let me go ahead and share my screen here. Boom. Okay. So Connor, you and I are big member stack fans. We are users of member stack. We have memberships on top of Webflow.

Uh, but Webflow obviously. Well, not obviously, I don't think they had to do this, but, uh, announced that they're going to launch memberships at no-code comp. Um, yeah. What do you think? So let's kind of go through here. So it sounds like we're going to have teared the ability to have users as a. Kind of category, right, right here.

You're going to be able to gain content. So grow your business with recurring revenue. So it sounds like it's just going to be gated content different from their e-commerce offering, which can add digital goods. Right. Then what else do we have here? It's a nice website. Um, your restrict content rights.

You're going to be able to pick which pieces of content or URLs are going to be a gated. You have a trial, so I'm just kind of going through it user systems, which is kind of cool. So what do you want to be able to have? So this feels like natural for web flow, right? Um, highly anticipated, highly exciting.

So I'm curious, what are your thoughts? Connor, relative to Webflow members. Yeah,  

[00:11:52] Connor Finlayson: well, I mean, memberships has been requested for the last like two and a half years. I think. I think it's been like number one with a margin on the workflow wishlist forever. And to be completely honest, when I got into web flow, it was definitely like a limitation.

Like obviously we didn't start. Uh, toll, that's supposed to do that, but it started off as a tool that allows you to build websites. And that did that. And it still does that amazingly well, but obviously as people start to come in is innate certain features and memberships was always one. And so, you know, member stack was actually started as a result of.

That been on the wishlist. And so it's very, facade is exciting to say that it's been launched and I'm also very interested to see how it's turned out. And, um, what use cases there'll be solving, what features. I'll have in the beater because like, we've got to be honest as well. It's like, this is like version 1.0 that they're launching to public.

So that means that there are going to be certain things that are not going to be there in launch. And it's going to be interesting to see how that affects people who are currently using member stack. Yeah. So. Yeah. I mean, it just, my personal thoughts on all of this, um, I'm keeping an open mind about it.

So about both. So I haven't decided whether I'm going to continue to go down the member stack path or the web flow path, because I mean, the sec works for me. It, everything that I need it to do, it does. Now there are a few things that member stack doesn't do that. Workflow is uniquely positioned to solve, which is Things" for example, being able to link a user to a certain collection, that type of stuff.

Right. But ultimately if the key use cases that we've, flow's going to be solving straight off the gate, or like from the speeder is like gated content. Then member's tech does a pretty good job of that. So that's point number one point number two is. The mistake is complicated to set up. Like if you don't, if you're not familiar with member stack or working with a certain level of code, then this might be a really good option to like get a membership site up and running.

And so I feel like there are definitely going to be people who are going to start membership businesses as a result of this been launched. And yeah, I mean, to be completely honest, I just, before I make my mind up on what I'm going to do, um, I just need to see what's in the space.  

[00:14:36] Aron Korenblit: Yeah. So I, you know, what's interesting is that you really, you, you are talking from the point of view of someone who uses member sack.

And I think it would be a mistake to think of web flow as like looking at member stack or any third party kind of integration here and say like, oh, well, let's go after their market. Right. I think that's a mistake, right? Because what flow is huge, it's way bigger than member stack. It's way bigger than any of their third party players.

And so, you know what I see the space here is. What about every single person who hasn't launched a membership, right. Who didn't want to invest in a third-party tool or didn't even know that you could do it. Right. So I wouldn't kind of see them as trying to take over something that third-party integrations have done very well.

So, you know, I get it from both of us. Like we think about this from like members tax perspective, right. Because we're users, but what I'm excited about a membership is like, what does this. For folks who haven't built a membership example. So one thing I always think about, and I really hope that Webflow does this is, you know, there are so many creators on Tik Talk, uh, for recipes, right?

So I curate recipes from Tik TOK and. You know, there's, there's no good way of monetizing that I would pay $20 a month just to have like recipes from the five people that I love. And I hope that web flow makes it super easy for these smaller creators to be able to spin up a membership website, have it look really good, really unique.

I think a challenge that I foresee here is how do you square this with web flows? Focus on. Right. So most of enterprises, what flows enterprise clients, you don't have a business behind their website that is not their website. So how do you square away? These two types of audiences? One that is like medium, maybe small bits, small businesses who really enjoy web flow and web flow memberships versus this push into larger and larger clients who are not going to use this functionality.

Right. We're focused might be a little split between all these different things that are. Especially that there's a third-party tool that does it very well. Right. So that is kind of my big concern is who is this for? And in second, how does it fit into web flows, larger kind of strategy. And are they able to execute across both of these?

Right. Um, so there are some, uh, Stephen's already all in, so Steven's all in on Webflow memberships. Uh, and I'm curious, like, you know, uh, uh, uh, Does has anyone gotten access to it? Right. Um, so I, I haven't joined it. Connor, have you heard of anyone who's joined it so far?  

[00:17:19] Connor Finlayson: I haven't, but I've been heading up Nelson nonstop and he stopped replying to me on slack.

[00:17:26] Aron Korenblit: We're not, we're not big. We're not big fish enough, you know, that's totally fine. I, I don't blame him. I'm sure he's, he's getting, and the whole Webflow team is getting so like, I, I, you know, I'm really excited about what flow memberships, I think it's, it's, it's interesting. Um, one thing that Coleen brings up is really interesting is like pricing, right?

Frankly, I, I'm not too worried about pricing. I expect it to be maybe free, maybe even like fees or slightly cheaper than member stock. So for me pricing, it's not a big thing. I know you had some thoughts, Connor on pricing.  

[00:17:59] Connor Finlayson: I mean, he does know Aaron, you know, like all I can All, I mean, obviously. Like, we've got to look at it in the grand scheme of things, pricing wise.

And like, realistically speaking, if you look at the opportunity costs before no code, like what you pay now is like nothing. Um, but I still, I, I, I'm not going to lie to you. I do have some slight concerns because, um, I, and this is just my personal opinion, I think back to when they launched Webflow e-commerce and.

Yeah, I feel like they priced themselves on the higher end of them. They were priced pretty much the same as Shopify and don't get me wrong. Webflow flow is like hands down, like the best web design web building tool, but there, but we're for e-commerce in itself, as it was launched was not. To the Shopify level.

Of course, of course. And, and I kind of feel if you want to bring those users in, you have to kind of, um, you have to kind of price it appropriately. Now, I think it's going to be a big deal. Like, I mean, like, I think it could go two ways either they look at it and they say, Hey, look, this has been the most requested feature on our wishlist.

We can price it higher because he is clearly demand for it. Right. Which I think to some degree. It's true. I mean, like there is proof for incredibly high the month, or they could basically make it a bit cheaper, potentially even price it like the e-commerce plans and make it more accessible, um, to people to start membership sites.

Right. If I, if I had to guess, I think they're going to price it pretty much the same as they price the e-commerce. Um, But to be seen. Okay.  

[00:19:58] Aron Korenblit: Yeah. I have a take, I have a take and, uh, uh, maybe it'll bear fruit or not. I actually think like a Shopify is a good example. Right? So I don't think the blocker for an e-commerce store is the price you pay for you.

Right. I, I just don't think that's true. Even if you charge $50 a month or a hundred dollars a month, like if you're making money on the web, that's like, that's like chump change. Right. So generally I think how I think Shopify makes money today is actually on transaction fees. Right. They make a percentage of every sale online and that's like orders above what they make on SAS pricing.

Right. And that's just more recent as they're taking over payment. So I actually expect, I hope that wet flow will do the same thing. Right. Realize that. What you gain by pricing it low or cheap is, is like, it doesn't really matter in the greater scheme of things, as long as you make it as easy as possible for people to make money on the web and you can make money there.

Right. So it is true for me. If you take 10% of money that I'm making, I don't mind as much, right. Because you're enabling me to make money on the web. And so I think like in the longer scheme of things, I hope that they price it cheap, but I hope that it's so successful that people don't even care about the upstart.

Right because where web flow will make money is on the backend. So actually started there by saying pricing doesn't matter. But actually it does matter in the sense of it should be easy to start and you could charge a lot of money on the percentage right. Of what people are making online and not make the price of entry a barrier.

So yeah, it was, it was a bad take. Finally, it was a take that it should be cheap.  

[00:21:34] Connor Finlayson: Yeah. I mean, I think you can look at it in a lot of different ways. I, I, you know, some people. Yeah. Don't want to pay that transaction fee. Like there are so many like form building web tools out there that I just refuse to use because they have like some silly transaction fee where it's kind of like, so I think that there'll be like a range of it.

I think ultimately the thing to keep in mind is even though I think a lot of people will prefer like a native solution for memberships there isn't. You know, there is an alternative to, um, to Wipfli memberships and that is me mistakes. So I, I kind of am hoping that they'll price themselves around, like similarly to that.

Um, at the end of the day, I think I'm going to try it no matter what, I'm going to build an I'm going to build a site using mudflow memberships, just so I have something to compare, but, um, It's a big one, you know? Um, it's a, it's been a big piece in the no-code space, so absolutely. It will be interesting.

Yeah.  

[00:22:38] Aron Korenblit: Okay. So it seems like in the chat folks are hoping, especially Steven, that it's baked into their existing pricing. And I do agree with Steven that like, if you add another dimension, That you price on. So teams versus e-commerce versus, uh, uh, uh, memberships percentages. I think web flow is going to have, you know, some pricing difficulties, right.

And just as a user and understanding it, but we're all hoping that it's cheap out of the gate and, you know, make money off the backend on actually enabling creators to build businesses, frankly, I'm probably going to give it a try as well. I hope that there's a good API. Uh, that I can integrate with air table, obviously, because that's where all of my information lives, Zapier integration would be great, but I'm sure those are all things that will come.

So when it is going to go out Connor we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get on a stream and, you know, we'll probably do a live session of just building in, uh, whoever full membership. And it'll be a little bit. Um, well,  

[00:23:37] Connor Finlayson: we could potentially build pots of code mates, no Cobra food we membership.  

[00:23:41] Aron Korenblit: Absolutely. Absolutely.

So you're, you're you're foreshadowing. We have one more thing we have to talk about before we jump into code meets, no code. Um, cool. And, and mackerel, there's a question around which community should you join? We're going to talk about that. Like in. Right. So stay tuned. Uh, cool. Okay. I think we've said everything.

There is the, we've said enough about memberships, Webflow memberships when it comes out the day that it's available or the day that I get it, where you get it. Connor, we'll jump on a stream. We'll do an emergency little stream and we'll play around with it and migrate, uh, websites and see how it feels and talk about limitations at that point.

Uh, so that's a promise to you All. Cool. Okay. So, um, Connor, you have been working. Let me, let me, let me move ourselves out of the way you have been working on unicorn factory Canada. So why unicorn factory Canada. And you know, this isn't like a sales pitch for folks that join unicorn Canada. But, um, I think there's some learnings that you've learned, especially with like using Newton's.

Uh, so I wanted to kind of give you the chance to chat about that and tell us a little bit of what you learnt, uh, creating unicorn factory Canada. Cool.  

[00:25:01] Connor Finlayson: Well, um, yeah, I've moved to Canada, so like, this was my, uh, big opportunity to take, like just a platform that I was using in New Zealand and. To another country.

And you know, like when I started the UNICOM factory, like I think people will sometimes sit down and have like vision. They, they come up with, they're like, you know, mood boards and visions and all that kind of stuff. I kind of just roll with it. Um, it's, uh, like it's worked out really well in New Zealand.

Like I'm really proud of what I created over there. A lot of people get like, Good opportunities to get your start as a freelancer. We've got light, fantastic freelancers on there. So when I came here, I wanted to, um, create something similar here, because I feel like, um, you know, just connecting people, businesses and local freelancers to each other.

Shouldn't be as complicated as it is. Um, and so, yeah, but all that aside, um, I went through the process of rebuilding the entire thing. So, you know, even though we probably does have a copy and paste functionality, you know, it's not as simple and straightforward as it sounds. So I've actually gone through the process of taking all the learnings that I got through building the unicorn factory new zone, and basically.

Starting from scratch with the Unicon factory Canada. And, um, this was a really. Thing to do, because it's kind of allowed me to see how I could potentially standardize that process of building these marketplaces. Right. So, um, one of the things that I observed as the uniform factory in New Zealand started to scale is that things started getting pretty much.

Okay, because you don't like it. Maybe, maybe people do. I don't, I just kind of fly while this doesn't work. Let's sit down and come up with a workflow that fixes that, or this is time consuming. That's come and built on that site. But like when you take an approach where you just solve things on the go, let's get all over the place.

Right. And I decided that. I needed to clean things up and starting the Unicon factory. Canada was a great way to do that. So I think what we're going to talk about today is my little air table base that I've started sitting up. Now, this is still in the very early stages. Um, I'm still working on it, but basically what I am building here is an overview of all the workflows, all the, um, whip flow page.

Email templates, tows that I'm using so that I have a high-level overview. What is happening with the Unicon factory. And so this is going to be important for me because, um, I outsource a bit of work and it's been increasing. I've been doing that even more now. And I need a way to make sure that if I am going to get someone to work on, like my workflows or work on my web for sites, that they kind of can jump in, see what's going on.

And so this is kind of what I've built. It's, um, an open. All of my workflows. When certain issues come up, I can just mock it the status differently. If I change a certain workflow, if I deleted workflow, I can change it to a negative. Um, I've broken it down by all the different PTOs and yeah, it's just a, it's just, I think an important thing to do.

If you want to build a no-code platform that you hopefully can scale over time. And when I scale, I don't just mean scaled that one platform. That means also if you set up a second version of your website, like I did with Canada, that you actually have a bit of a manual that you can follow so that you can then yeah.

Kind of standardize the way that these sites get.  

[00:28:47] Aron Korenblit: Yeah. So I think what's interesting in this is like, um, you know, and, and when you showed me this, why I insisted that we showed on the stream, because this is like a Metta, almost air table of things happening in different tools. Right. And I think you're amazing point of like, once you standardize and write out everything that happens, it's much easier to say, to say to someone like, Hey, can you take this over?

And here's the information, the context that you need to understand this, like underlying. Of my workflow. Uh, so I'm sure that people are kind of looking at this and are like, oh, like delete members. How do you do that? Right. And what's great about it is that you actually write out like, okay, I use Parabola, it's this area, the last time this was updated it's here.

And you even have like little images that talk about, you know, what this does. So this is an, a link to the actual workflow, right? When available. So it's like a great example. I think what everyone should do. Um, as a way of standardizing the way they work, once you get to a place of like, okay, this is working pretty well.

I have 50 things that happen in order for this workflow to happen. How do I document that? To let anyone look at it second, it's a great place to come in and be like, okay, these are the things I need to. Right. So you have a status and you can organize and say like, okay, the next thing in my underlying workflow that I want to improve is this and then work towards it and you're automatically documenting it.

Uh, so, and I we've talked about this, I've written about this on, on the newsletter. Like there is no good way to see how workflows work across different tools, but this is a perfect example of how you can do that yourself in.  

[00:30:34] Connor Finlayson: Yep. And you can use the web clip at all as well. So you just jump into Zapier, you have your web clipper with all of your fields predefined, and you can just drop it all in there, which is a huge time-saver.

And honestly like whether you want to, um, you know, create multiple locations for your freelancer marketplace or whatever, getting in the habit of process, uh, documenting these things is going to make things so much easier when outside. Yeah. You know, and, um, especially if you, when you're dealing with something that has so many moving parts, if you don't want to break things, like make very clear how it works.

And so, yeah, this is kind of how it is now. And actually just, this is like breaking news. I'm seriously considering moving all of my workflows from Zapier to Antigua. Okay. Um, and so now I actually have a manual of what every little thing does inside of Zapier. Right. So it's going to make the process of rebuilding them a lot easier.

Right.  

[00:31:36] Aron Korenblit: So that's actually a really good point when you're migrating tools right now, you're able to say like, okay, what do I run in Zapier? You can open this up and be like, okay, here are all the different things I need to migrate in order to like, remove Zapier from my workflow. So to question. One is why move everything to Integromat and then two, how are you thinking about going to like about doing that?

[00:32:01] Connor Finlayson: But to be completely honest, I've changed my mind about Integromat when I started using it the first time. They had some very infuriating UX issues. Okay. That really just turned me off from raising it. Like, um, for example, you would sit your map all of your different fields, but you'd have to manually hit the save button that was hidden somewhere down at the bottom.

You'd have to scroll there, but, um, I, uh, have been spending a bit more time in it and I've actually discovered that they've got a lot of workflows. We Integromat is like. Better than Zapier. I think especially the more advanced workflows, you know, where you need to visually see how things work. Integromat just beats Zapier there all day of the week.

It's just a lot more intuitive to do. And, um, the different, like a few little areas that need help with Integromat, but I kind of feel like pricing wise is affecting. You know, again, I don't think there's Zapier is like crazily overpriced for what you get, but again, there's an opportunity cost. And also, I just feel like, um, You know, the fact that I've spent the last few months also learning how to code it means I can take full advantage of the alike API tools and we pop tolls, which means that there are a lot more opportunities to actually sit up really fun, more advanced workflows.

And so I'm currently thinking about how to do that. And the second part of your question is like, honestly, I just will go through one after the other, like all the web, all the workflows that I've got set up inside of Zapier. I can sit up inside of I'm like Integromat so I'm just gonna, it's going to be on the to-do list and I'm going to smash through,  

[00:33:49] Aron Korenblit: so, uh, Steven, uh, agrees with you, right?

So he's, he's also a big Integromat fan. Uh, I, I'm not there yet. I, you know, I'm team air, table automations, plus scripting for everything I will, I, I, uh, I will try to keep as little as possible. And it's interesting. I do want to like what we said at the beginning. Uh, um, unicorn factory runs on five tools, right?

And that's, I think what the most impressive really you've got air table Zapier Integromat problem, mailer MailerLite and obviously Webflow and member stack, right? Those are not the automation tools, but these are the tools that you're using. And you're kind of hoping to standardize to really get like, as little of these tools.

And I'm sure if you could run, uh, something that you currently run in Parabola, if you could run it in Integromat you would probably go ahead and do it as well.  

[00:34:38] Connor Finlayson: Yeah. I mean, I like Parabola. I mean it's um, yeah, I mean, I think Parabola is a Koto. It says, I think I'll still use Integromat for individual events.

So like things that are triggered by web Hawks, whereas Parabola is still a tool that I'll use to sync databases. But again, the goal long-term is not to have more tools is to have less tools. So if. Um, Integromat does the trick and I don't have to go through the process of it 15 times in order to get it right then, you know, you never know.

I always say, keep an open mind with these things, because you never know what you'll learn from one day to the other, you know what? I think this is  

[00:35:20] Aron Korenblit: going to happen. You're going to hit an issue and Integromat, that's going to drive you wild and just like, it's not going to save us scenario or it's going to fail for a day or whatever.

I hope that doesn't. But if it does, it happens  

[00:35:31] Connor Finlayson: all the time.  

[00:35:32] Aron Korenblit: It does. So I hope you'll come here and give us a, like a proper Connor rent, uh, all the things that are now don't work, uh, because you've moved to one tool.  

[00:35:42] Connor Finlayson: Yeah. So I I've had so many people like comment on my videos. It's like, yeah, we're still figuring out era handling the thing about the thing that I find funny about Integromat is like, when like an automation.

And you don't have era handling set up. It just turns off your automation. It's like, no, walk on the automation toll just turns off.  

[00:36:03] Aron Korenblit: It's like, no, it failed the ones. It's never, we were never running this again.  

[00:36:07] Connor Finlayson: For sure. It's just like, not, sorry, it doesn't work anymore where it's sappy. It just keeps going, you know?

[00:36:13] Aron Korenblit: Um, okay. We'll come back to us with everything you learn about migrating to Integromat also, I I'm sure coronary, if you're open to it, I'd love for maybe for you to like open source this just the base itself. Feel, let Connor know. Uh, if you're interested in your thinking about documenting your workflows as well, um, Yeah.

You know, I was just so impressed by this. So I really wanted to show on the stream and talk a little bit about how folks could think about, you know, standardizing to one place, but just being really good at documentation. And I do have to say Colleen, uh, someone who works with me on "Automate All the Things".

I am nowhere near this well-documented so for that, I'm sorry. Uh, I will strive to be more like Connor and document my workflows. Uh, there's like a loom folder with every one of my workflows. Just quick video about it and I'm sorry.  

[00:37:04] Connor Finlayson: Yeah, well, I'm just getting started, you know, I'm going to definitely hit you up for some little tips and tricks because ultimately what I want to do is I want to add little explainer videos to every section.

Right? Right. I want to make this like a library that I, because long-term. It would be so good if I could actually just get people to build light the unicorn factory in different countries. And I'd just be like, here's what I want you to do. Here's the order. Here's the video, watch it, build it. And I actually think that, um, yeah, I want to do it for the no code stuff.

I wanna do it for my marketing stuff, you know, of course. Um, and so I'm getting there, I'm learning as I'm going.  

[00:37:44] Aron Korenblit: Okay. You'll come back to us with all the questions you get about each video. Uh, and people asking, oh, it doesn't work exactly how I expected. So we'll keep that for another time. I would love, uh, you know, to have little videos and I'm sure I would learn a ton as well.

So let Connor know if you're interested. I'm sure he'll kind of share, uh, everything he builds out throughout. Okay. So unicorn factory really appreciate you Connor kind of showing us, uh, uh, you're documenting. So let me just kind of, boom. Okay. So code meets no code. Uh, we've been talking about it for a few months.

Um, Connor, tell us, tell us what the, what, what is code meets no-code and what drove us to kind of start working on this project.  

[00:38:31] Connor Finlayson: Okay. So. Obviously over the last few months I've been, um, yeah, I think probably like four or five months ago, I made a video that, where I said that I think, yeah, type of automations as the future, um, I then started playing with scripts and now I'm almost certain that it is like what, learning, how to script was something that was so far out of reach for me when I started my no-code journey was actually the reason why I started my no-code journey.

But recently I've spent a lot more time with it. So, um, obviously we've worked on workflows together. We've jumped on calls and gone through the process of actually sitting out workflows inside of air table using your table scripts. We went and set up button fields, and it's really shown me what you can actually do if you understand just a little tiny bit of code.

And so, um, I did a little series on my channel where I showed you how you can use air table scripts to do different things inside of. For example, create a web for item updated. We applied him or the leader, we flow it in. And so before its grips came along, the only real way that you can do it is with an automation tool.

But with those automation tools at times come certain limitations. For example, Zapier doesn't have a way for you to delete collection items, right? So we talked about your tables screen. We worked on one where I think the one that you showed me was how I can send a welcome email. You're using air table scripts for the mailer cinder API.

And that just kicks that for me. I was just like, this is amazing. And it's like kind of easy enough to follow. And so right now I'm very excited about scripts. And I think this is like the perfect way for people who are already. Advanced with no code tools, Zapier Integromat to take it just that little bit further.

And so the idea behind code meets, no code is to basically share your table scripts that you can copy and paste into your own ear table base. And then we'll be making a bunch of little videos where we will tell you how you can modify your scripts with the idea being that you actually learn how scripting works.

By just doing little bits at a time, because that is how you showed me Aaron. And I was like, this is amazing. Like, I can't believe that this was working. And then as soon as our call ended, I started playing around a little bit further. I started looking into the API documentation and I was like, this is amazing.

I went from knowing nothing about scripts to now being able to create CMS items by clicking a button field. And so. This is the idea behind it. We want to take like some common use cases that you had otherwise solve with Zapier and happy to do it using your table scripts.  

[00:41:27] Aron Korenblit: Yeah. And, and I think, you know, uh, first, uh, Connor, I think all the credit goes to you because, you know, you've, you've, you've really kind of worked through a, you know, we, you started with like, Hey, how do I do an if statement?

I have now nailed down for API calls and I've like, uh, you can just change one thing at the top and it's, you know, an integrated all these different API. So I think all the credit goes to you. Um, you know, I'm just excited to, to have more people write, you know, simple code. And I think, you know, we're, we're starting with just a few air table scripts.

Uh, but there was something in the chat that I think really spoke to me. You know, there's no reason why it has to happen in Airtable. Like I have a bunch of API calls that run in zap here. Uh, we have so many web flow developers building snippets on top of web flow that if you're not a developer or you're not familiar with it, you don't quite know how it works.

So our goal here is really to kind of, yes, start with air table scripts. The one that we know and kind of help people implement those. But from there, I, you know, I'm imagining more of a low-code commuter. Right where we're sharing scripts, you know, Connor and I are obviously generating a bunch and other creators are going to build scripts on top of Webflow and other tools.

Um, but yeah, we want, we want you to have more power, right? Not be limited by what a click and drop tools can do. And when there is a little bit of code that you could use and reuse. So, so yeah, I'm, you know, I'm so excited about, uh, no code, a code meets no code. We do have the domain, but we want it to quickly hosted on, uh, Connor's website.

So I just dropped that in the chat. If you sign up, what you get for the first ones are, you know, those videos that Connor already created, and now we're adding a bunch. So if you do sign up and you're interested, let us know like, oh, I would love to be able to do this, or I'd love to be able to do that. Um, just email us, we're going to create a.

Of scripts or API APIs that people want to integrate and just are banging them out, like, okay, here's how we think of doing this. If you want to help us write these, let us know. Like we're super excited. Uh, and you know, I'm personally super excited also as someone who until a year ago or a little less didn't know how to write scripts in general.

So I'm really excited about it.  

[00:43:47] Connor Finlayson: Yeah. And even like the stream that you did last week, um, about the Benner BIP, Yeah, like this stuff is like game changing. Like I know I might seem a bit hyped about this, but this is only because I, when I discovered the way that I feel about those right now is the way that I felt about like, discovering talks like Zapier, because like no cold calls, I believe can get you 80% of the way, like good no-code polls, but then there'll be certain use cases that are very unique to you.

And like, if you already see what people were putting out there, so I know. Has got a library of like amazing web flow scripts. I mean, the work that Joe does where fin suite has so much that allows you to push beyond the boundaries of the actual tools and being able to like come up with those yourself.

Yeah. Feels so, so good. And, um, it doesn't take  

[00:44:43] Aron Korenblit: much. Can I con I selfishly want to show off like an example outside of the no-code world, that, uh, is an example. And I do think you're, you're writing crediting so many folks that are doing this as well. Right? So Joe Corey, uh, Ben Parker, I steal his stuff all the time.

Right. Uh, so, you know, we just want to add, we want to add more. Uh, scripts that you can use to really level up, uh, um, your no-code example. So, but I do want to, like for folks who are not low coders, who aren't quite like, why would I need this? Right. I want to, are you okay, Connor with me just showing this like two minute example of what's possible.

Um, yeah, so, um, someone came to me and was like, Hey, like I want to create a food diary. Right. So like, uh, someone trying to lose weight, that person is, is me, frankly, but I'm not going to use this cause I'm not organized enough, but it kind of got me thinking of like, oh, could I create a low code way of tracking what you eat?

The kind of calories protein and things like this. And I went on the web and I was like, oh, is there an API that, um, can just can, can just tell me for any food. What ingredients and, and what, uh, information is in it. And so I found this API, I think it's called, let me just find it. What's it called? It's called calorie ninja, obviously.

Right. And literally, like, I built this in 20 minutes. You can say I ate two apples. Let me just a banana, I dunno. And 250 grams of milk. And what I did, you click this button? It runs the API call and then it returns like the number of calories, the number of carbs, the number of protein, you can even check to kind of see what it understood.

And like, you know, I don't really care. I, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to be hardcore about this, but the fact that, that took me like 15 minutes to create, right. And you can have your kind of daily summary of all the calories you've eaten, how much protein, whatever, and track your weight. You know, is, is like a perfect example of what you can do once you have access to these APIs.

And there are thousands or hundreds of thousands of API APIs just like this that you can build. So what I hope people kind of take away from code meets no-code is like that 20% exactly. As you did, like you find an API online, you want to use it. Boom. You understand how, and we really want to kind of have the community.

Which tools they want to integrate and, you know, we'll create scripts that everyone could reuse.  

[00:47:28] Connor Finlayson: Yeah. It just a quick note on that example, there's no way you're doing that in Zapier. No way you're doing that in Integromat absolutely not. And that is kind of the thing those develop developers can currently solve for that extra 20%.

We are going to try and help you learn how to get at least to the 90% mark, 95% mark. And especially with like a community of people who are already like. In the space, I'm just feeling so good about it. And so, yeah, if you, if you want to get like a little preview, the website is not going to be on my personal website.

Um, but you can already get a preview of how it could work. So you can just log in the, are free tutorials in there. It has the videos that you can watch as well as the coats and their pets. And you can just copy and paste them over. So if you are already working with web flow and air table, then you can just go ahead and.

Try it out.  

[00:48:25] Aron Korenblit: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and a quick follow we're hoping to make. Uh, so if you're familiar with Postman, uh, which is a little, uh, we can create collections in Postman, just so you can test out APIs. Uh, we're also hoping to create collections for various APIs that folks use in the no-code community like member stack and others, just so you can start understanding.

So my ask from you is if you're interested, go sign up, but more importantly, tell us what limitations you're hitting, uh, and what tools you would like to integrate. And, you know, we'll create reusable scripts, uh, for that precisely. So we're looking to you to let us know what, what, what is after air table plus web flow?

I'm sure member stack is going to be in their banner. Uh, whatever food API you want, let us know. And we're really excited to build it out. Cool. Yep. Okay. Well that was everything I wanted to talk about today, Connor. Uh, any, any final parting words before we sign off for NOCO Talk until next. Uh,  

[00:49:33] Connor Finlayson: no, uh, be sure to get your tickets to the NOCO conference.

If you haven't already, I submitted my slides. How about you, Aaron? Have you submitted your slides? Uh,  

[00:49:43] Aron Korenblit: I need to learn new tools because I am putting I'm putting aside the work I have to do for the no-code conference. So luckily, uh, the fence we team is going to help me whip my slides into. Uh, I'm spending the day today, uh, writing out, uh, my whole, uh, and I, uh, on the newsletter today, I wrote, I wrote about, uh, no-code comp, uh, and, and my Talk.

So, so now I'm stressed out Connor. I'm stressed out. I'm actually, I'm actually going to go do it now. So with that, uh, um, okay. There's a question. So Pascal let's. Yeah, I'm happy to ask how asks us talks on, on click up versus air table. Uh, um, I am not allowed to talk on this subject so corner, I will let you speak on click up versus air table.

I mean,  

[00:50:36] Connor Finlayson: Pascal night. Yeah, Table. It was like the undisputed number one. Like, I don't know what click up has to offer, but I'm not even going to look at the landing page now. Um, I don't know. I've heard a lot of people talk about it. I think, um, the, I don't know, uh, personally, uh, I haven't played with it. I'm very, very committed to air table.

Like something pretty bad would have to happen with via Table in order for me to move over. Um, but I do know that if you are interested in learning a bit about it, I think the, um, Matt from 80 20. They've got a podcast and, uh, they've got a podcast coming up, Lacy and, um, been, um, it's I think it's the visual  

[00:51:22] Aron Korenblit: yeah.

Visual dev FM. Yeah. Let me drop a link. Visual Dave  

[00:51:25] Connor Finlayson: empower us where they are going to debate this topic. So I think they will be able to provide a better answer than I can on the matter. Um, but yes, my short answer is. Yeah Table all day of the week. It's like the undisputed number one,  

[00:51:44] Aron Korenblit: I work at air table.

So my opinion on the matter is, is I guess not you've relevant, but quite biased. Um, so I think everyone can guess what, what I prefer, but I'm happy to like, uh, um, expand on it eventually. But honestly, like I don't, I don't, whatever, whatever. If you think click up is cool that that's, you know, I'm all for it.

Like I don't, I don't whatever works for people. So personally I've, I've never used click up, uh, but I use Airtable for everything, which, which sometimes is not great. Right. Uh, you know, maybe I need a little more flexibility. So my, but my opinion is, is, is irrelevant here. Cool. Okay. Well, Pascal, thanks for that.

Thanks everyone for joining. I will be, uh, next week with Steven automating, uh, uh, social media for ATT tweets, which is the kind of, uh, uh, new Twitter handle of ATT just cause I felt like I was, I need a place where all of Coleen's great clips end up and we can promote the stream. That's just dedicated for that.

So we're going to be doing that with Steven next week. And then Ben in two weeks is probably going to be on the stream to talk about no code. Uh, and we're going to be writing some code in that as well. So a bunch of cool thing. Uh, and yeah, I will see you Conor next month for the next. No, co-talk thanks everyone for joining.

Really appreciate it. And I will see you all here next week or next month for NOCO tuck cope. Goodbye. Bye y'all.

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